[duskylim]

Hi Guys!

I'm Dusky Lim from the Philippines. DevilDoc has been writing on the forums there and piqued my interest. I'm new to the forum and just wanted to greet everybody hello!

I've been reading the posts of several members and a few things struck me.

1) the question of where to install the injector nozzle, before or after the turbo's compressor.

From the point of view of maximum boost, the best place would be BEFORE the compressor as the cooled air and water/alcohol vapor would cause the compressor to follow a more constant-temperature curve (isothermal) which would result in more air being compressed and less work done by the turbo, or both.

The problem with this location is possible damage or erosion to the compressor wheel and blades, the damage will be proportional to the relative speed between the blades and the water droplets and the size of the droplets themselves.

Note - the same thing happens in steam turbines if the steam is wet, here the supersonic speeds involved rapidly erode the turbine blades and the resultant mess is called "blade salad".

Ideally, the water nozzles in such an installation would produce such a fine droplet mist that they would be carried along by the air stream without eroding the turbo's compressor.

Short of that ideal, to be on the safe side, stick with a post-turbo installation.

2) Ambient air does contain water vapor (as humidity) even at temperatures well below the boiling point. If you don't believe me, tell me where the moisture that forms on a cold glass of beer comes from!

When the quantity of water vapor in the air is at the maximum the air is said to be "saturated" or at 100% relative humidity.

The study of the properties of mixtures of air and water vapor is called psychometry. Psychometric charts and steam and air tables would help you guys a lot in estimating the cooling effects of water injection.

3) Methanol (CH3OH) is the simplest and lightest alcohol, but also has the lowest heating value (calorific value) of all the alcohols. Ethanol (C2H5OH) is a slightly better fuel.

Propanol, butanol and all the other higher alcohols all have higher heating values when burned. By the way, aside from ethyl alcohol, all the other alcohols are toxic, when inhaled, ingested or handled and the recommended antidote is to drink lots of ethanol as the body favors it and expels the rest!

Best Regards,

Dusky Lim

[dvldoc]

Pre turbo injection has not proven to have caused excessive were, You can find about 2 photos of any damage on the whole internet. Neither have any before shots. If you atomize the solution with a high pressure pump such as ours, Were talking 200+ psi with the nozzle sizes you guys will be using and it is a true fog.

You guys have a very short turbo to intake track in most cases less than a 1/2 meter so it would benefit, not to mention the meager size of the turbos there. In my opinion on most of these vehicles they will benefit from pre-turbo injection we will test the differences with the G-tech pro SS and see if there is any performance gains or loses vs Post turbo.

There are many people stating use of pre turbo injection for years with no issues. To many people say it will damage without having see or tested anything. I had a guy running a kit here with it but found out later he had been running without a filter for a few weeks, Coral roads will trash a turbo quick with no filter.

But post turbo is just as easy on these vehicles and your still get that nice kick because of the temp drop. Overseas Turbo diesels are some of the easiest vehicles to install just take install the nozzle in the hose or pipe right before the manifold and your done. I have a pretty big collection of pics of pretty much every TD motor used there.

We will be doing both pre-post turbo installs at Clark on the 22nd. We'll have plenty of date to post up after this event for sure.

Just avoid getting methanol on you when at all possible, You can get 5 gallons for 750P which is pretty cheap, Plus you can buy ethyl alcohol in just about every pharmacy and SM grocer there as well. You can get Denatured in most paint shop there as well. We're bringing Methanol to the event purchased in the Philippines as well as ethanol as well. I especially want to see if there is a difference between the two alcohols on the vehicles.

See you in the Philippines on the 22nd Dusty

[duskylim]

Dear Mr. DevilDoc:

I'm curious, the page on the shurflo pump indicates its a high quality diaphragm pump, but does not identify the type of motor (my guess is DC series?).

Second, in using the voltage controller, to control the pump via Pulse Width Modulation, delivery pressure is proportional to pump speed, right?

Therefore at low speeds, pump and spray pressure is also low, at high speeds the nozzle size dictates the maximum operating pressure, right?

So I might get less atomizing pressure at low speed and full atomization at high speed. Not really ideal.

What if I make the pump deliver to a accumulator (common rail!) and tap the rail with lets say, 3 lines each going to a separate solenoid-valve, nozzle combination.

The pump will be controlled by a simple pressure switch with cut-in at say 150 psi and cut-out at 200 psi. All it would do is keep the rail supplied at the right pressure. I would install a check valve to prevent backflow to the pump.

The solenoids and the nozzles would be triggered by the Progressive Controller, not the motor.

I could use a very small nozzle (maybe 0.5 gph) for good low speed atomization, mated with the 1st solenoid, operating from idle up to 1200-1500 rpm, then a slightly larger one (1 gph) operating from 1500 rpm up to say 2500 rpm, and then the largest one (2 gph) from 2500 rpm up.

Turn on times (duration) are determined by the Progressive Controller! Operating pressure remains constant (and high), delivery is tailored to demand, and I get NO leaks during high manifold vacuum situations.

I could use a thermostatic switch to prevent delivery if the engine is cold.

Whaddaya think?

Best Regards,

Dusky Lim

[dvldoc]

I posted your answer on the other forum.


What i covered but in more detail
Pumps are DC
Reverse check valve built in
Kits come with a check valve
You'll never see less than 60psi on the pump with the controller
Don't over complicate the system thats when things cause problems.
Use a toggle switch to activate your system after warm up.

[killerbee]

Originally Posted by duskylim

The study of the properties of mixtures of air and water vapor is called psychometry. Psychometric charts and steam and air tables would help you guys a lot in estimating the cooling effects of water injection.

psych r ometric