Paxton blow-through

shawn · 05-13-2007

hi,
I'd like to start by saying it's nice to have a company/forum that supports their product. I'll also say that since we have bought a brand "S" injection system we've got nothing but uniformed confusion from them. Hopefully someone here can at least tell me if we can salvage something that we already have by adding some of the D.O. products.
We currently have the "big" system (whatever that means), a plate with two nozzles, and the controller. The engine is a 363" sb ford with a Novi 2000 Paxton and a 750 carb in a blow through box. It made 1023hp at 25lbs of boost. I currently have 23* of total timing in it and it's run on race fuel. The nozzles themselves are a bit of a mystery because we were told "this is what you need", so i'm not sure even what they are.
Now onto the problems. Our inlet temps when it goes in to high gear are around 250*. The air temp sensor is directly below the plate in the plenum area of the intake. The numbers recorded with or without the injection operating are almost exactly the same. I know that the system is working because the levels in the bottle go down, and our a/f ratio goes rich on the passes with it functioning. I have an idea as to why we don't see a drop in temp. One is that the temp sensor being only about an inch from the plate isn't giving the water/alcohol mix enough "time" to heat sync with the hot inlet temps. Which is why the air temps remain the same. The next one is that we simply don't have enough nozzle to effectivly cool the charge. One idea i had was to move the nozzles from the plate to the outlet of the supercharger, giving it more time to cool. Another idea is one that i stole from Steve Morris, to actually put it in front of the supercharger inlet. Which leads to the next problem. The carb is enclosed in the Paxton blow through box, which means the the water/alcohol mixture is going to be sprayed around the whole thing, carb, linkage and all. Not a very good thing. I don't have a problem putting a regular bonnet on the carb, if relocating the nozzles are going to do what we want. It may be that we are beyond what a system like this can do?
In closing i would like to say that i'm an engine builder, so i do understand the mechanics of an engine, as well as the benefits of a product like this. I just don't know what the limitations are. Your thoughts are appreciated.
thanks,
shawn

Rocket468 · 05-14-2007

I would say your iat sensor being so close is why your not seeing it on your gauge. It is still giving you some cooling but its not registering on your gauge. If you do move the nozzles down the system I think you will see a drop. I would not do it with your current setup, till you switch to a hat style and a blow thur style carb.

Now if your not getting enough cooling another thing can be to run larger nozzles. I have never held snows nozzles and don't know if they are marked or not. If they are i would assume its on the spray end. Got to be a flat area. What kinda 02's are you getting when it kicks on? Did you play with your secondary jet size?

shawn · 05-14-2007

hi,
thanks for your feedback. The engine will richen up about .75-1.0. This is with a 50/50 mix. I haven't fiddled with pulling jet out of it, because i don't feel comfortable with the system yet. It runs almost the same exact et/mph with or without the system. We ran it once with 100% alcohol and it about killed the driver. The fumes were so bad he almost couldn't breathe at the end of the pass. It also ran the a/f down into the 9.0's. I suspected that the sensor being that close to the nozzles was part of the culprit. I think we may still put a regular hat on it and move at least one of them upstream later. Have you tried putting them in front of the supercharger? I was told it helps to seal up the blower, makes more boost, and cool's. We don't have an issue with detonation at the moment, so this hasen't been to much of an issue, but they've gone 9.04 in thier 3600lbs pickup, so i'm sure they are going to want to put some timing into it so they can get that 8 sec. et slip. Do you know if your nozzles are compatible with the brand "s" system? It would be nice to order ones that i know are sized correctly. Is there anything else you would reccomend?
thanks,
shawn

Rocket468 · 05-15-2007

Our nozzles are 1/8" like snow but ours mount from the inside out. So they will work just will mount differnt. We didn't like there design and are workening on something thats an outside mount and meats our liking but its taken far longer than we expected.

shawn · 05-16-2007

Thanks for the info. I'll try and give you a call so i can get those coming, and maybe pick your brain a bit on a few other things, too.
thanks again,
Shawn

roy biggins351c · 12-10-2007

i have a blow thru set up on my race car i was going to try using top lube in my mix so i can keep my carb incloser on my car anybody think that mite work?

393bird · 12-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy biggins351c

i have a blow thru set up on my race car i was going to try using top lube in my mix so i can keep my carb incloser on my car anybody think that mite work?

I am using a enclosure and getting readt ti add alcohol injection. What type of problem are you having?

Shawn, where are you injecting at? Details please.

05-13-2007	#1 (permalink)
shawn Water Injection Newb Year: n/a Make: n/a Model: n/a Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3	Paxton blow-through hi, I'd like to start by saying it's nice to have a company/forum that supports their product. I'll also say that since we have bought a brand "S" injection system we've got nothing but uniformed confusion from them. Hopefully someone here can at least tell me if we can salvage something that we already have by adding some of the D.O. products. We currently have the "big" system (whatever that means), a plate with two nozzles, and the controller. The engine is a 363" sb ford with a Novi 2000 Paxton and a 750 carb in a blow through box. It made 1023hp at 25lbs of boost. I currently have 23* of total timing in it and it's run on race fuel. The nozzles themselves are a bit of a mystery because we were told "this is what you need", so i'm not sure even what they are. Now onto the problems. Our inlet temps when it goes in to high gear are around 250*. The air temp sensor is directly below the plate in the plenum area of the intake. The numbers recorded with or without the injection operating are almost exactly the same. I know that the system is working because the levels in the bottle go down, and our a/f ratio goes rich on the passes with it functioning. I have an idea as to why we don't see a drop in temp. One is that the temp sensor being only about an inch from the plate isn't giving the water/alcohol mix enough "time" to heat sync with the hot inlet temps. Which is why the air temps remain the same. The next one is that we simply don't have enough nozzle to effectivly cool the charge. One idea i had was to move the nozzles from the plate to the outlet of the supercharger, giving it more time to cool. Another idea is one that i stole from Steve Morris, to actually put it in front of the supercharger inlet. Which leads to the next problem. The carb is enclosed in the Paxton blow through box, which means the the water/alcohol mixture is going to be sprayed around the whole thing, carb, linkage and all. Not a very good thing. I don't have a problem putting a regular bonnet on the carb, if relocating the nozzles are going to do what we want. It may be that we are beyond what a system like this can do? In closing i would like to say that i'm an engine builder, so i do understand the mechanics of an engine, as well as the benefits of a product like this. I just don't know what the limitations are. Your thoughts are appreciated. thanks, shawn

05-14-2007	#2 (permalink)
Rocket468 DevilsOwn Staff Year: 2000 Make: Pontiac Model: Grand Prix Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,107	Re: Paxton blow-through I would say your iat sensor being so close is why your not seeing it on your gauge. It is still giving you some cooling but its not registering on your gauge. If you do move the nozzles down the system I think you will see a drop. I would not do it with your current setup, till you switch to a hat style and a blow thur style carb. Now if your not getting enough cooling another thing can be to run larger nozzles. I have never held snows nozzles and don't know if they are marked or not. If they are i would assume its on the spray end. Got to be a flat area. What kinda 02's are you getting when it kicks on? Did you play with your secondary jet size?

05-14-2007	#3 (permalink)
shawn Water Injection Newb Year: n/a Make: n/a Model: n/a Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3	Re: Paxton blow-through hi, thanks for your feedback. The engine will richen up about .75-1.0. This is with a 50/50 mix. I haven't fiddled with pulling jet out of it, because i don't feel comfortable with the system yet. It runs almost the same exact et/mph with or without the system. We ran it once with 100% alcohol and it about killed the driver. The fumes were so bad he almost couldn't breathe at the end of the pass. It also ran the a/f down into the 9.0's. I suspected that the sensor being that close to the nozzles was part of the culprit. I think we may still put a regular hat on it and move at least one of them upstream later. Have you tried putting them in front of the supercharger? I was told it helps to seal up the blower, makes more boost, and cool's. We don't have an issue with detonation at the moment, so this hasen't been to much of an issue, but they've gone 9.04 in thier 3600lbs pickup, so i'm sure they are going to want to put some timing into it so they can get that 8 sec. et slip. Do you know if your nozzles are compatible with the brand "s" system? It would be nice to order ones that i know are sized correctly. Is there anything else you would reccomend? thanks, shawn

05-15-2007	#4 (permalink)
Rocket468 DevilsOwn Staff Year: 2000 Make: Pontiac Model: Grand Prix Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,107	Re: Paxton blow-through Our nozzles are 1/8" like snow but ours mount from the inside out. So they will work just will mount differnt. We didn't like there design and are workening on something thats an outside mount and meats our liking but its taken far longer than we expected.

05-16-2007	#5 (permalink)
shawn Water Injection Newb Year: n/a Make: n/a Model: n/a Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3	Re: Paxton blow-through Thanks for the info. I'll try and give you a call so i can get those coming, and maybe pick your brain a bit on a few other things, too. thanks again, Shawn

12-10-2007	#6 (permalink)
roy biggins351c Water Injection Newb Year: 81 Make: mercury capri Model: capri Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1	Re: Paxton blow-through i have a blow thru set up on my race car i was going to try using top lube in my mix so i can keep my carb incloser on my car anybody think that mite work?