Torco race fuel concentrate

first/thridgen · 08-12-2008

I tryed a experment last week as I am still lacking octane for my 13 to one Na engine.

I added 10% torrco race fuel conctrate to my methanol tank.
It worked well with no detonation with a agressive timing table I was very happy with the performance part of the experment.

Two problems though within 24 hours the pump valve had swollen and had to be replaced and the 100% meth and torco seperated in the tank when left still.

I want to run a seperate injection system from the methanol. This is a last attempt before a engine tear down and reduced compresion to 10.5 to 1 - 13 to 1 and pump gas mild cam and throttle positions that alows less then 5 inches of vaccum is not possible with meth/water injection without detonation with realistic timing.

I have a spare pump do you sell a valve that is compatable with Torrco (basically MMT)? Or is there another pump capable of pumping this chemical?

Rocket468 · 08-12-2008

Well i don't know what chemicals are in torrco. you should use this Torco Race Fuels - Methanol Enhancer Concentrate Case (ENHC) It will mix with methanol.

I have idea whats in it. So i would not run it in the pump unless someone does know what chemicals and i can look it up. Also need to keep the flash point from dropping to low.

first/thridgen · 08-12-2008

I believe that product is just top end lube. The race fuel concentrate works as a real octane booster. Basically the MMT is like TEL. It works well. Mixed with fuel or injected.

dvldoc · 08-14-2008

Torco is good stuff, Use to use it all the time. But it does turn your spark plugs tips a odd reddish color. Which means it's leaving a residue.

datsun280zxt · 08-23-2008

Maybe I'm missing something, but why not run the torco as designed, as an additive in your fuel directly? Are you trying to run regular pump gas and then have the meth kit take care of the rest? I ran the torco additive myself for a couple of years and liked it a lot. Much better than race gas on my wallet. Then I found out about Devils own and bought their kit and could get away with not using the torco anymore. As the engine progresses, I'm now running race gas along with my direct port methanol. I don't know much about your engine setup as you haven't posted much. Is it fuel injected or running a carb? If it's fuel injected, you could spray additional methanol to use as a fuel as a well as the knock suppression. Then lean out your fuel maps accordingly. I assume you could do the same on a carb car and run smaller jetting on your secondaries? I'm not real familiar with the tuning of carbs, so I could be off, but I think thats the avenue I'd be persuing.

first/thridgen · 08-23-2008

I have tryed zeroing out the power enrichment maps and added large amount of meth/water, I am constantly running into the knock sensor. It is a 13to 1 small chevy with tuned port injection I am trying to run 87 octane fuel. I cannot get enoungh supression out of the methanol unless I Inject for about 20secounds before I tramp on it. Once the air intake temperture gets down to 15 degrees c it is good.

I drive between 10 to 15 k miles a year, torrco or race gas are a waste of money at cruse speeds.

I think I went overboard with my cr.

datsun280zxt · 08-24-2008

What size nozzle are you running, and at what pressure? I went to straight Methanol and skipped any water. That way I was getting the maximum amount of meth possiblesince I'm injecting larger amounts. Too much water can be a bad thing. I'm running 6 5gph nozzles at somewhere around 150psi. If I remember correctly, the nozzles are rated at 100psi. So at 100psi I'm running 30gph. I don't know if the scale is linear or not as far as flow goes, but if it is, then I'm running approx 45gph of straight methanol. It allowed me to increase boost from 15psi to 25psi and I believe I could go higher if chose to, all while keeping a very agressive timing curve. You should be able to make up for the high compression the same way. I just don't kow how much meth you're running now, or how muchy more you would need. It would just be trial and error.

first/thridgen · 08-24-2008

Interesting,, if you are running that much boost I should be able to run a NA engine at 13 to one no problem.

Check out this link for dynamic compression ratio Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator

Nozzel size I am running 4X2gph and a 7gph and a 10gph = 25gph at about a 100psi. Sounds like a lot but I may have a hose restriction as the car on straight washer fluid lets say 40 - 60 meth -water will only go 60 mph when I shut the gasoline pump off and watch the wide band until I get close to stoich.

I agree about the straight meth working well but after having numerous leaks at mulitply fittings I am a little scared to. I hope that is in my past.

I have almost given up on alchol injection, the car works great with a 1/2 tank of 94 octane and a liter of torrco no injection. But this adds to about $50 dollars a tank just so I can tramp on it comparred to a tank of 87 octane.

I assume u are running 90 plus octane?

I have until winter to make injection work, I have other pistons lined up for a winter rebuild. I have learned that a aggresive timming table is worth more power then a couple points of compresion.

datsun280zxt · 08-24-2008

I'm running 91, but did try 87 at one point and didn't have any issues...but I like to be careful, and I don't drive my car much any more, so the price of 91 isn't that big of a deal. I have a couple of questions for you on your injection setup. What size line are you using to feed your pump? I upgraded mine to 3/8 od line and found a large jump in pressure. The stock sized line was just too small to flow the amount of meth I was having the pump push. As for leaks, you can alows just go to the nut/ferrel fittings and you will have zero leaks. Everything you need should be available at any large truck/semi dealer. They carry the fittings and the hose you would need should you decided to get away from the push-lock style ones. The only problem you might run into is if the pump will have enough umph to keep up with the larger amount of fuel you are trying to supply. My kit is much older and they used different pumps back then (from my understanding) and the new pump is superior. I'm actually running dual pumps on my set up. Chance should have the details on the pumps and what they're capable of.

first/thridgen · 08-27-2008

Thankyou datsun280zxt,

I added more nozzels 36gph in total and using 100% meth it supresess detonation and pulls hard when at the right mixture with 87 octane.

I have to revisit my plumbing as I am down to 60psI when flowing, I do have a large feed line to the pump, I think I am getting close to the limits of the pump not sure. Maybe I will have to run 2 pumps as well.

Now that I know that it is possible I will work on setting up stages with rpm switches.
I believe I will add direct injection to the manifold for one stage (8 x2gph) and add the remaining amont of required nozzels to the existing throttle plate with 2 more stages.

08-12-2008	#1 (permalink)
first/thridgen Alcohol Injection Year: 1968 Make: Chevy Model: Camaro Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 32	Torco race fuel concentrate I tryed a experment last week as I am still lacking octane for my 13 to one Na engine. I added 10% torrco race fuel conctrate to my methanol tank. It worked well with no detonation with a agressive timing table I was very happy with the performance part of the experment. Two problems though within 24 hours the pump valve had swollen and had to be replaced and the 100% meth and torco seperated in the tank when left still. I want to run a seperate injection system from the methanol. This is a last attempt before a engine tear down and reduced compresion to 10.5 to 1 - 13 to 1 and pump gas mild cam and throttle positions that alows less then 5 inches of vaccum is not possible with meth/water injection without detonation with realistic timing. I have a spare pump do you sell a valve that is compatable with Torrco (basically MMT)? Or is there another pump capable of pumping this chemical?

08-12-2008	#2 (permalink)
Rocket468 DevilsOwn Staff Year: 2000 Make: Pontiac Model: Grand Prix Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,122	Re: Torco race fuel concentrate Well i don't know what chemicals are in torrco. you should use this Torco Race Fuels - Methanol Enhancer Concentrate Case (ENHC) It will mix with methanol. I have idea whats in it. So i would not run it in the pump unless someone does know what chemicals and i can look it up. Also need to keep the flash point from dropping to low.

08-12-2008	#3 (permalink)
first/thridgen Alcohol Injection Year: 1968 Make: Chevy Model: Camaro Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 32	Re: Torco race fuel concentrate I believe that product is just top end lube. The race fuel concentrate works as a real octane booster. Basically the MMT is like TEL. It works well. Mixed with fuel or injected.

08-14-2008	#4 (permalink)
dvldoc DevilsOwn Staff Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,043	Re: Torco race fuel concentrate Torco is good stuff, Use to use it all the time. But it does turn your spark plugs tips a odd reddish color. Which means it's leaving a residue. __________________ Currently deployed to Ramadi 1 battalion 12th Marines Task Force MP

08-23-2008	#5 (permalink)
datsun280zxt Alcohol Injection Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 34	Re: Torco race fuel concentrate Maybe I'm missing something, but why not run the torco as designed, as an additive in your fuel directly? Are you trying to run regular pump gas and then have the meth kit take care of the rest? I ran the torco additive myself for a couple of years and liked it a lot. Much better than race gas on my wallet. Then I found out about Devils own and bought their kit and could get away with not using the torco anymore. As the engine progresses, I'm now running race gas along with my direct port methanol. I don't know much about your engine setup as you haven't posted much. Is it fuel injected or running a carb? If it's fuel injected, you could spray additional methanol to use as a fuel as a well as the knock suppression. Then lean out your fuel maps accordingly. I assume you could do the same on a carb car and run smaller jetting on your secondaries? I'm not real familiar with the tuning of carbs, so I could be off, but I think thats the avenue I'd be persuing.

08-23-2008	#6 (permalink)
first/thridgen Alcohol Injection Year: 1968 Make: Chevy Model: Camaro Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 32	Re: Torco race fuel concentrate I have tryed zeroing out the power enrichment maps and added large amount of meth/water, I am constantly running into the knock sensor. It is a 13to 1 small chevy with tuned port injection I am trying to run 87 octane fuel. I cannot get enoungh supression out of the methanol unless I Inject for about 20secounds before I tramp on it. Once the air intake temperture gets down to 15 degrees c it is good. I drive between 10 to 15 k miles a year, torrco or race gas are a waste of money at cruse speeds. I think I went overboard with my cr.

08-24-2008	#7 (permalink)
datsun280zxt Alcohol Injection Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 34	Re: Torco race fuel concentrate What size nozzle are you running, and at what pressure? I went to straight Methanol and skipped any water. That way I was getting the maximum amount of meth possiblesince I'm injecting larger amounts. Too much water can be a bad thing. I'm running 6 5gph nozzles at somewhere around 150psi. If I remember correctly, the nozzles are rated at 100psi. So at 100psi I'm running 30gph. I don't know if the scale is linear or not as far as flow goes, but if it is, then I'm running approx 45gph of straight methanol. It allowed me to increase boost from 15psi to 25psi and I believe I could go higher if chose to, all while keeping a very agressive timing curve. You should be able to make up for the high compression the same way. I just don't kow how much meth you're running now, or how muchy more you would need. It would just be trial and error.

08-24-2008	#8 (permalink)
first/thridgen Alcohol Injection Year: 1968 Make: Chevy Model: Camaro Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 32	Re: Torco race fuel concentrate Interesting,, if you are running that much boost I should be able to run a NA engine at 13 to one no problem. Check out this link for dynamic compression ratio Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator Nozzel size I am running 4X2gph and a 7gph and a 10gph = 25gph at about a 100psi. Sounds like a lot but I may have a hose restriction as the car on straight washer fluid lets say 40 - 60 meth -water will only go 60 mph when I shut the gasoline pump off and watch the wide band until I get close to stoich. I agree about the straight meth working well but after having numerous leaks at mulitply fittings I am a little scared to. I hope that is in my past. I have almost given up on alchol injection, the car works great with a 1/2 tank of 94 octane and a liter of torrco no injection. But this adds to about $50 dollars a tank just so I can tramp on it comparred to a tank of 87 octane. I assume u are running 90 plus octane? I have until winter to make injection work, I have other pistons lined up for a winter rebuild. I have learned that a aggresive timming table is worth more power then a couple points of compresion.

08-24-2008	#9 (permalink)
datsun280zxt Alcohol Injection Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 34	Re: Torco race fuel concentrate I'm running 91, but did try 87 at one point and didn't have any issues...but I like to be careful, and I don't drive my car much any more, so the price of 91 isn't that big of a deal. I have a couple of questions for you on your injection setup. What size line are you using to feed your pump? I upgraded mine to 3/8 od line and found a large jump in pressure. The stock sized line was just too small to flow the amount of meth I was having the pump push. As for leaks, you can alows just go to the nut/ferrel fittings and you will have zero leaks. Everything you need should be available at any large truck/semi dealer. They carry the fittings and the hose you would need should you decided to get away from the push-lock style ones. The only problem you might run into is if the pump will have enough umph to keep up with the larger amount of fuel you are trying to supply. My kit is much older and they used different pumps back then (from my understanding) and the new pump is superior. I'm actually running dual pumps on my set up. Chance should have the details on the pumps and what they're capable of.

08-27-2008	#10 (permalink)
first/thridgen Alcohol Injection Year: 1968 Make: Chevy Model: Camaro Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 32	Re: Torco race fuel concentrate Thankyou datsun280zxt, I added more nozzels 36gph in total and using 100% meth it supresess detonation and pulls hard when at the right mixture with 87 octane. I have to revisit my plumbing as I am down to 60psI when flowing, I do have a large feed line to the pump, I think I am getting close to the limits of the pump not sure. Maybe I will have to run 2 pumps as well. Now that I know that it is possible I will work on setting up stages with rpm switches. I believe I will add direct injection to the manifold for one stage (8 x2gph) and add the remaining amont of required nozzels to the existing throttle plate with 2 more stages.